Carleen: Here's the thing...Beth and I are probably the least qualified individuals to give anyone any sort of style advice. Here's a clue why: What are you wearing right now, Beth?

Beth: Oh lord, you had to ask what I'm wearing after I already changed out of my work clothes, huh?

Yikes (looking down at self) okay, I'm wearing a pair of light blue shorts that are too short and too tight. One leg is longer than the other by almost an inch because I got them at Value City for a dollar. Also wearing a gray Cincinnati Reds T-shirt that I stole off of my husband's shelf, because that way it is bigger and longer.

Uh, and I still have on black socks because I didn't change those after work. My hair is pulled back into a pony tail (a definite fashion DON'T for me).

But really, I did just get home from work and change into "around the house" clothes. I'm at least color coordinated (such that I do) and even-hemmed when I go to work. Today, I wore khaki pants with a long-sleeve black golf shirt, black socks and black Reeboks What about you, Carleen?

Carleen: I'm wearing a short, brown cotton skirt I bought at the Job Lot (the Job Lot is known for selling garden hoses and surplus spices and greeting cards at 30% discount if that tells you anything), and a sleeveless shirt I bought at the Salvation Army for $3. So I guess we've proved you won't be seeing our pictures on the cover of Vogue anytime soon. But I still think we have a right to judge what people wear in public, don't you?

Here's my first rant: what I consider to be overcoordination -- or let's call it coordination overkill. You know what I mean? Shoes, belt, pocketbook -- match. Top and bottom -- match. Earrings match necklace match bracelet match belly button ring. Lipstick matches fingernail polish matches toes. That sort of total package look really freaks me out and I wish women would stop. Do SOMETHING original.

Beth: Not to mention that it looks about as personalized as buying an entire showroom floor of furniture. That's just wrong.

Did you ever notice how people who overcoordinate also always have "Hairdos" -- not hair, not haircuts, not even hairstyles -- these folks (usually women) always have a "Hairdo" (capital H). My hair routine: Wash, rinse, towel dry, comb, ignore. The next morning, comb or wash as needed.

  

Hey Carleen, do they have mullets where you are? I couldn't get over how many of those we saw at the zoo this weekend. Jeff would point one out every now and then and say "Hey, that guy came to the zoo to visit someone with hair just like his! Yaks -- to your right."

Carleen: Not too many of those around here. But what is it with zoos? The last time we went to the zoo we saw a young woman teetering around in platform shoes and a mini skirt. Perhaps she confused the late-night club petting zoo with the real thing? And speaking of night clubs -- there oughtta be a law about age restrictions. Must be over 18 to wear/must be under 18 to wear. That sort of thing.

• Bra straps coming out of your tank top -- on teens, cute. On adults, tacky.
• Bandanas -- on teens, a fashion statement. On adults, hiding dirty hair. We're not fooled.
• Sock with sandals -- looks stupid. NO getting around it, at any age, this is nasty trend.
• Those baggy pants on teenagers, where the crotch is down around their knees? I have to buy $20 pantyhose so they don't fit the same way! I don't care what anyone says, your crotch belongs in your crotch, or at least within whispering distance. Actually, though, I don't mind the boxers coming out of the top so much. I don't like it, but it doesn't make my vision blur.

Carleen: Your crotch belongs in your crotch. Now that's a bumper sticker. Your bra strap comment makes me think of another one - I'm sorry, forgive me, bra burning and all that good stuff -- but some women really, really, REALLY do have to wear bras. And yes, I know at that last march-on-Washington soiree I attended it was over 100 degrees and the march wasn't going anywhere so it was more of a Stand In Place than a march but in addition to bras -- some women -- really, really, REALLY need to wear shirts in public. I'm hoping Katy will agree with us and understand that the fact I don't have to wear a bra isn't really something I consider to be a good thing.

Beth: One final thought on bras: Unless you are a professional athlete or under the age of 15, a sports bra is a bra, not a top. And I'm pretty sure this isn't sour grapes, despite the fact that I still pass the pencil test at age 39.5. Gravity has to have something to work with, ya know?

Carleen: Oh, final final thought on bras: or unless you're Madonna or J'Lo and getting paid millions to wear your bra, or not wear your bra -- then it's okay, go for it. And don't think it didn't piss me off that Jennifer Lopez could look THAT good braless and see-through at the damn Oscars. There's just something not right about that.

Beth: Okay, enough about bras. What about shoes and socks? What is with those people who wear black socks with shorts? What are they thinking? Do they not care? Do they not own any other socks? Are they too lazy to change socks? Are they covering some particularly egregious tattoo visible through light-colored socks? We saw a guy wearing PLAID socks at the zoo, fergawdssakes. With a striped shirt, natch.

Carleen: How did my dad end up at the Cincinnati Zoo? Just kidding, dad. He hardly ever wears shorts, but when he does -- black socks. No, I don't know why.

So you talked about bras and when they show and when they don't show and underwear and when it shows - well - okay, the boxer thing, I'll just have to concede that one to you, but when wearing tight, white (and why are they always so damn tight?) sweatpants -- out in public - which I would never in a gazillion years do but that's just me -- please -- don't wear your leopard panties or your black panties or your polka-dot panties. Wear your white panties. Is that so hard?

Beth: Here's another one on shorts -- and I would like to make this a law -- shorts have to be longer than the widest part of your leg. Spandex must be 85% covered unless you're a professional athlete or under the age of 14. Now, in full disclosure, I'll wear shorts that are too tight around the house, or Spandex under long T-shirts around the house -- but NEVER in public.

Ooooh - oooooh -- I have a question: What is the most ridiculous outfit you've ever left the house in? I'm not talking about the "greet your man in a trenchcoat and a smile" thing...

Carleen: Oh good, you swore you'd never tell...

Beth: ...I'm talking about a quick trip to the drive-through or the mini-mart. I have flannel jammies for the winter, and I've always wanted to wear them through the drive-through, but I'm always afraid I'll get in a car wreck and have to greet the police in blue flannel jammies. With my luck, they'd be the Fashion Cops!

Carleen: And we're not talking Halloween, right? See, this is hard for me. Blame my mom (haha!) -- but I'm so damned presentable whenever I leave the house...

But thinking of work makes me think of some of the outfits I wore when I was 18 and a secretary and help me, please - I don't know how I ever got out of there alive. White cowboy boots with fringe, black pumps with pink ankle socks. God, I was frightening. So that's my next rant -- please -- no white cowboy boots with fringe, no black pumps with pink ankle socks -- unless you're home from greeting the guy with only a trenchcoat and a smile.

Beth: Other than a brief foray into "the corporate world" (nightmares I still have!) I've always had pretty non-traditional jobs, and non-traditional clothes. I'm a huge fan of T-shirts and jeans. Dress up version: khakis and golf shirts. You probably aren't old enough to remember the knit scarves we ALL wore around our necks growing up. Kind of a big fishnet square -- tied in knots on each end, worn around your neck, tied down low or not at all. Ugh, I had a TON of those things. Soon after that I decided accessories were not for me, and I gave them up permanently. We're all much happier now. Claire's Boutiques sent me a thank-you note for never darkening their doors again.

I don't know Carleen, I don't think we're the only ones with fashion rants. I've heard friends talk about toes/heels which stick over the end of their shoes, overweight men whose shirts don't cover their entire belly, thin skirts without slips…. all sorts of stuff. I'm going to turn it over to you for your MOST hated fashion faux pas, then I say we see if we can get others to chime in.

Beth's Number One Fashion Don't: any clothing for daytime wear that you can see "heads or tails" on the quarter in the pocket. I don't much like it at night either, but at least it's not so obvious which way the coin is pointing. Near tie: Dark lip liner with obviously lighter lipstick. You know what I mean.

Carleen: I remember the scarves, and the preppy days, and lots of other stuff we're all better off forgetting...so let's see...

Carleen's Number One Fashion Don't: Beth, it's me, I can't pick just one. I hate it when you do that. So 1a) If you're a large woman -- don't wear a tent, wear clothes that fit, dammit. You look sexy and stunning and better than Tent Woman. 1b) Don't wear a sequined mini dress cut down to THERE to an afternoon family wedding, I saw this one recently and it made me cringe; and finally, and most importantly, 1c) if you're a gorgeous woman who looks gorgeous in anything, particularly in stuff that would look hideous on me -- just stay away when I have PMS. How's that?

Beth: Works for me! Let's turn it over to the Message Board for other nominations for the Fashion Don't List -- remember, these are things that people might knowingly choose to wear, but the rest of us wish they'd look in the mirror a time or two before they go out in public like that! Tarts dress for ourselves, but we still have a responsibility to future-Tarts to show self-respect when we go out around the common folks.